Posts by Billy the Ex-Bethelite

72

Coping With Atheism (Long-ish Post...sorry!)

by humblepotato in

jw
friends

long time lurker (2009-ish), first time poster.

first of all, i want to say thank you everyone who contributes to these boards and provokes stimulating conversations and thought processes.

all the opinions and different perspectives are very enlightening.

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

Greetings HumblePotato, Welcome, you are!

As an atheist, I'll readily admit that there's a lot that I don't know. But there's a lot that I'm certain of:

The bible is a fictional story book. It may have some valuable moral lessons that people can learn from... but the Harry Potter books and Smurfs cartoons have valuable moral lessons too. But the bible also contains plenty of morals, lessons, and stories that are wrong now and were wrong then. (A rape victim must marry her rapist? That is completely f###ed up.)
All the other religious belief systems I've examined claim they are "true". Yet, under critical examination they are not profound religious "truth" either.
There are religious groups that do good works, but I might as well join a social club and volunteer for charities instead. They do good works without wasting time on theology.
Is there a higher power/spirit/god(s) that exist but are giving us the silent treatment? Is there some other life after death that those on the other side cannot communicate back to us? Or is there some type of reincarnation? Maybe, maybe not. Spending time looking for answers that aren't there (or coming up with more unanswered questions) is time that could be spent doing other productive and enjoyable things.

You've probably already seen it, but here's a link to my thread about asking questions without really setting off the "apostate detectors":

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/254990/exjw-psychology-102-how-ask-question-when-questions-arent-allowed

Since you've already seen how JWs will jump all over you if you express doubts, putting the questions in the context of maybe just one question encountered in FS, from a relative, or at work, puts the discussion in an entirely different context. "I know the Bible must be true, but how do I answer my workmate who questions how we don't believe in evolution, yet we do believe that the millions of species of animals could have fit in a floating box about 4000 years ago. I guess we don't have an answer and I'll just have to stop talking about it and stop preaching to him."

10

A Toast to Windchimes

by DarioKehl in

i recently researched on jw dot org why toasts are not allowed.

in the article, they candidly admit that wedding bands also have pagan origins, but their modern understanding trumps this fact since they serve another function: signifying whether or not a person is married.

same with neck ties, i guess (although their pagan origins were not mentioned in the article).

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

Someone should totally make a flag saluting, toasting Sparlock windchime.

That would make a great birthday present!

As I've said about a billions times, pants are pagan. Trousers predate Christ, so he would have known about them from his pre-human existence. But Jesus never wore pants. Nor did he prophecy that his true followers would wear this heathen attire. It wasn't until after the death of the apostles and the coming of the great apostasy that trousers and Christmas became popular. And while Christmas makes god sad once each year, pants make god sad every day.

28

How hard is it to attend a congregation outside of the territory where you live? Consequences for doing so.

by hoser in

jw
friends

i need to change congregation but stay living in the same place.

any experience with this.

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

I knew lots that attended congregations whose territory they didn't live in. Some were helping out where needed. Others were honest in admitting that they had differences with elders or others in their previous congo.

Probably the most interesting, and I think it was legitimate, reason was that this person had been attending the same congregation for over a decade and they just wanted to make some new friends and work different territory in serve-us.

24

They only care about themselves......

by dubstepped in

jw
friends

i've watched the reaction to the nepal disaster for the first time with eyes opened.

lots of comments about praying for the brothers and sisters affected.

the official release on the website references only the sister and her two children that died, along with the impact on the brothers there.

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

There are several factors that contribute to dubs not getting involved in relief work like this:

"Rely on Jehovah!" It was posted here that in the recent WT broadcast a UBM decided to study because he prayed to jehovah and the prayer was answered... finding a leak at his job. So if jehovah would help this guy find a leak, certainly he would help a JW praying to find their child buried under a collapsed building... Right?
They are programmed that if assistance needs to be organized, WT will do it. Years ago when hurricanes went through the US, RBCs got very involved. That decreased as the years passed, until it seems that JW relief work is just organized as a photo op for WT literatrash and videos. If WT Corp said the word, putting emphasis on relief work instead of just the futile preaching works, I suspect that a lot of dubs would step up. But with GB 2.0, that isn't going to happen.
Any JW that would be inclined to get involved in nonWT relief work will get redirected to WT building projects, meeting involvement, and preaching. And JWs hear things like "worldly charities are all corrupt and the work and money doesn't go where it's really needed."
Doctors Without Borders and Engineers Without Borders? How many JWs are doctors and engineers in order to get involved in this kind of relief work? In WTland, becoming a doctor to save lives is a satanic waste of time. But becoming a pioneer, working for minimum wage, and spending hours every day standing by a litteratrash cart is the most important work the GB can think of.
And fundamental to the JW worldview, bad news is excellent news! WT doesn't want the world to become a better place. They don't want to see lives saves, people evacuated from disasters, buildings repaired, etc. WT thrives on bad news... the worse the better. They want to see people dying in natural disasters, people helpless and abandoned, buildings crumbling, etc. because things like that tell them that their panda-petting paradise is getting closer.

8

Today's text--James Brother in...The Bible Is Not Enough

by sd-7 in

wt comments, 4/29/15: .

"does this mean that as long as there is no clearly stated law from god, we can just follow the ways and standards that we are brought up with and that are common in our area?...

[quoted prov.

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

The Bible shows that trends and standards of the world are manipulated and controlled by none other than Satan, 'the god of this system of things

I've said it before and I'll say it again, "Jesus never wore pants!" Nor did he wear a suit, or a tie, or socks, or anything polyester. All of these trends and standards of Satan need to be discarded.

42

Convention Cartoon

by freemindfade in

so last night they played the convention cartoon.

there were a few laughs from the audience, overall though people seemed a little taken aback and tight lipped.

like no one gushed about it afterwards, no applause, just like it was nothing new at all.

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

the leadership reduces them to childlike dependency

The WTBTS leadership treats its members like children that need to be told how to behave in public.
Let's review: It's a cult!

It is one of the tactics of cults to make their followers childlike and dependent. Most of their published material is dumbed down, written at about a third grade level, but intended for adults. And it's often in a condescending voice telling the reader what to think, what to feel, and using lots of fallacies as though they're valid teaching. I suspect that the "simplified study edition" is just a smokescreen to make the regular edition seem "deeper and smarter". In reality, they only seem to switch the wording and vocabulary such that the two editions should really be differentiated as "dumb" and "dumber".

So I guess it shouldn't be a surprised that they're using cartoons like this for teaching adults. Rather than help these people become more responsible adults, indoctrinate them to be obedient children.

52

Questions for those that believe in Electricity

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

you can't see electricity or hear it or feel it.

well, there are sparks and lightning bolts and heating elements and the light and heat of filaments.

and somehow, it lights up neon in a tube.

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

Looks like some of you have gotten "higher education". That makes Jehovah sad... just like plastic toy wizards.

48

Evidence based folks: what is your stance on GMO's and why?

by cappytan in

jw
friends

so, the anti-gmo movement scored another victory today.

chipotle has opted to only use non-gmo food items.. hooray for them.

i'm pretty neutral on the subject, mostly because, other than questionable treatment of farmers, i have seen no evidence to avoid gmo's for health reasons.. basically, my neutrality boils down to the stance that i'll buy non-gmo, so long as the price is reasonable.

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

GMO avacado

That's an excellent example baltar. Hass avocados all come from grafts originating from one singular tree. (read the link, if anyone cares) I think the new patent laws would make these delicious things corporate property of whoever "patented" some part of the genetic code. Want to plant that avocado pit and see what grows? Get ready to go to court.

*sigh* Maybe these are the last days.

22

"Jehovah clearly answered my prayer!"

by stuckinarut2 in

so the fade is progressing well.... however, it has been noticed by the 'hounders', who i know will be "following up" with us soon i'm sure.. so i have thought of a way of shutting down the questions etc.... if they ask about things like meeting attendance and field activity, i am going to say something like:.

"oh, thanks for your interest and concern brothers.

this means a lot.

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

Thoughts??

I'd say that my siblings and I have gotten minimal hounding. I believe that to a great extent, it was because we had already used the stuff I suggested in these threads... which you've probably already read:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/254990/exjw-psychology-102-how-ask-question-when-questions-arent-allowed?size=20&page=1

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/256052/exjw-psychology-104-one-way-play-depression-card

So the elders already have to realize that if they come a knockin' they'd better have answers to the questions I'd previously raised. Abbreviated example...

Them: "Billy, you need to get back to preaching kingdumb troothz!"

Me: "I'm glad you brought that up, do you have a response for my coworker who raised the "kangaroo question", how am I supposed to respond to that?"

Them: "We'll get back to you on that. How about you get back to attending the meetings!"

Me: "I really hate to admit this, but I get so depressed at the meetings. I'll tell you about it, but you probably won't understand. You see, when I go to the meeting and see both of you sitting with each of your families and children, it makes me sad because I was convinced by WT that singleness and not having children was the way to go because armageddon was so close... back in the 1980s. So now I go to the meetings and listen to counsel that I'm supposed to be having a family study. That's just a painful reminder that I made some bad decisions based on some bad advice."

...awkward silence...

Them: "Oh, if you come back to the meetings there are lots of single sisters that are looking for a wonderful husband like you would be!"

Me: "You mean like sister [insert name of a single sister that would make them cringe]. I was an elder long enough to realize that getting married isn't necessarily any key to happiness. While I was in bethel, the seeds of remaining single were planted very deeply and cause me inner turmoil EVERY DAY."

Them: "Well, it's been nice catching up with you. We'd love to see you actively serving Joe Hovah again."

Me: "It's been good talking to you and getting a few of these things off my chest."

They leaving thinking, "You mean there's more stuff like that to get off his chest? We'll just leave this in Joe Hovah's hand."

* Disclaimer: Your results and talking points may vary.

13

Saw my first JW literature cart

by undercover in

jw
friends

i saw a jw literature cart, and two dubs standing behind it this weekend.

they set up at a popular well attended event in a small town that brings thousands of people from around the country.

even though i've been out and away from jws for some time, and no longer identify as one of them, and the people i was with had no clue, it was a bit embarrassing to see the cart and cult zombies with it.

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

I saw a couple with a cart on my way home from work today. I only saw them momentarily since they were located at an intersection with a lot of car traffic, but almost no foot traffic. If I didn't already know exactly what it was, my only thought would have been, "why are those two dressed-up people standing out in that gravel lot?"